Colum Wood is pissed that Europeans don't care about the Corvette

"El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!" (lightningzone)
03/02/2016 at 17:59 • Filed to: None

And that brings me to a post I made a couple of months ago, about the need for a standalone, global Corvette brand.

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DISCUSSION (40)

For Sweden > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
03/02/2016 at 18:03

Making a new Infiniti isn’t going to do anything for GM.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > For Sweden
03/02/2016 at 18:04

But making a new Porsche, will.

For Sweden > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
03/02/2016 at 18:05

Don’t we have enough Tahoe derivatives without making a Corvette-badged Tahoe?

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > For Sweden
03/02/2016 at 18:08

If it drives like a Cayenne, no, we don’t.

Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan' > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
03/02/2016 at 18:17

No matter how much tech you put into it, it’s too late.
As a European, I can tell you that without a doubt, most people (and by people I don’t mean gearheads, but regular Joes) think that this car has an aura of a lazy, hateful, poorly educated, unsophisticated, fat white man with a plastic cowboy hat and a house full of guns. It’ll be a long time until an American car with such a strong personality will have an audience a serious market in Europe.

Have Woody Allen build a Corvette and it might get through. With Michael Bay’s styling it’s a no-go.

Nauraushaun > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
03/02/2016 at 18:24

You think it’ll work better than SRT did?

Nauraushaun > Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan'
03/02/2016 at 18:24

This is it. It’s got a reputation as a ham-fisted muscle car for fat Americans who need a V8. No matter how good the car gets, it may never shake this image.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan'
03/02/2016 at 18:25

It’s not about technology. It’s about branding. You can achieve good results faster, if you have a brand that only makes a few exclusivist cars, rather than sticking Corvette to the big, Chevrolet brand. Focused marketing helps too.

Lamborghini is Michael Bay on meth, ecstasy and LSD, but nobody is running away from it.

DoYouEvenShift > Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan'
03/02/2016 at 18:25

I prefer the Michal Bay styling.

Ferrari and Lambo do too apparently lol

Kinja'd!!!

Mercedes Streeter > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
03/02/2016 at 18:26

Nah, that wouldn’t work. Chevy kinda already does segregate the Corvette from the rest of its line in the EU...Problem is that Chevy has such a horrible reputation out there that you couldn’t pay some people to drive a Chevy.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Nauraushaun
03/02/2016 at 18:28

Not the SRT shit again. SRT failed because of bad planning, insufficient resources and poor execution.

TheHondaBro > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
03/02/2016 at 18:31

You can’t compare a Corvette with a Lamborghini.

Cé hé sin > Nauraushaun
03/02/2016 at 18:36

Yes, it’s like Cadillac. Everyone just knows a Cadillac is some chrome covered monster with fins at the back and a raging thirst. No amount of publicity or smaller models like the Saabillac will convince people otherwise and so the name is irredeemably tainted.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > TheHondaBro
03/02/2016 at 18:36

Yes. But that doesn’t mean they can’t try to mimic Lamborghini’s success.

For Sweden > Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan'
03/02/2016 at 18:37

Bruh, if repeatedly winning Le Mans doesn’t show the Corvette is a serious sports car, “most people” deserve what they end up buying.

Kinja'd!!!

Cé hé sin > Mercedes Streeter
03/02/2016 at 18:38

Chevrolet have been withdrawn, not so much for a horrible reputation - people bought them for a while when the name was applied to what used to be Daewoos - but because they were unknown and had no reputation at all.

TheHondaBro > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
03/02/2016 at 18:38

-_-

Leon711 > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
03/02/2016 at 18:39

Bad planning, Chevy is pulling out of Europe entirely. Insufficient resources, I couldn’t buy one without importing it as grey market car and by then it’s as expensive as a 911 and doesn’t have a warranty because there’s no dealers.

Bad execution? can’t get one in RHD for the UK market, still has an aura of plastic surrounding it, which whilst it may not matter to Americans, it matters to Europeans.

it’s a good car, just not in line with European tastes, if they wanted to start selling it seriously over here they would take at least 2 generations before getting somewhere. See UK reviews of the new Mustang, the first that we officially get, most say it’s great in a straight line but lags behind in quality, body control and handling.

MultiplaOrgasms > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
03/02/2016 at 18:40

A couple of years ago Corvette was a standalone brand in certain european markets. The keyword here is “was”.

Leon711 > Mercedes Streeter
03/02/2016 at 18:41

Not to mention Chevy completed ceasing European sales shortly.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
03/02/2016 at 18:42

Still a horrible idea that will accomplish nothing besides adding more costs with little to no more return. If Chevys were more than just Daewoos in Europe they’d have a better stigma. Besides it’s a Chevrolet Corvette and always will be.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Leon711
03/02/2016 at 18:47

Yes, a small, well funded, focused team to establish Corvette globally, is the solution to the problems you listed above.

Sweet Trav > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
03/02/2016 at 18:47

Respectfully,

I disagree. First, GM has too many brands as is. Buick and GMC need to die. For GM to go to a proper 2 brand strategy in the US (Chevrolet and Cadillac) What you describe in your article is what Pontiac was going to be, before it was killed off.

Here’s the truth. Corvette will never be Porsche, Cadillac will never be BMW. The Corvette, dollar for dollar is the best performance car in the world, Period. Does it matter? No. Because Porsche has the perennially overrated 911. Keep in mind that the 911 isn’t the best sports car that Porsche can make. Conventional wisdom says, and has proven that mid engine is a better layout for fast cars, but Porsche doesn’t care because it prints money on all of products, because of the tie to the iconic 911. You don’t change a winning recipe

Which brings me onto my next topic, Cadillac. Cadillac is currently building a 3 series, and a 5 series than BMW is. The CTS and ATS are more engaging to drive than their German competition, but it doesn’t matter because all Cadillac has done is copy the Germans. They want to out BMW, BMW. If you’re constantly emulating number 1 you’re never going to be number 1, because BMW is five years ahead of you in vehicle development.

There are other more practical issues as well, for instance: platforms and manufacturing. Mercedes, BMW, Porsche all have an advantage, they don’t have a “Mainstream” car such as the Malibu. They get build a chassis from the ground up for a single purpose. GM is saddled with the economics of having to share platforms. Is a Re-badged GMC Acadia really fitting of the Corvette brand? (for that matter is a rebadged VW Toureg fitting for the Porsche) GM has exactly two platforms that are capable of any performance variants: The Alpha platform that already has Camaro and ATS-V on it, and The Y-Car (Corvette) platform. You’re either going to dilute the platform by taking cost out of it to make it manufacturable on a large scale, or you’re going to make it so expensive that it isn’t salable as a Chevrolet or Buick, so what do you end up with? A compromise between the two. Is that really what Corvette is about? I don’t think so.

What should GM do with the Corvette? Exactly what it has been doing. Building a No Compromise “World Beater” at a comparatively reasonable price. The C7 is attracting a lot of first time GM buyers, because of how it looks, because of how it performs. Huge spikes in Corvette sales for 2014 and the momentum carried in to 2015.

I can’t talk about future projects, but trust me. Corvette is doing just fine, and is in the most capable of hands.

JDIGGS > For Sweden
03/02/2016 at 18:47

Agreed.

Thinking it’s ugly or not your cup of tea is one thing, but not admitting to yourself it is probably way faster and better in every aspect than the car you actually own, and probably more performance than most people have ever even driven it kinduv puts things into perspective.

I think Otto’s attitude is that of someone who maybe is never going to have anything more than a used hatchback anyways and as a result his opinion is worthless.

If you can’t afford a new Corvette don’t pretend you are going to pick an Aston or Porsche or Ferrari instead!

To be fair a lot of European areas are packed together and that youth hype popularity more hey I’m a fanboi of this car than hey I’ve actually spent time driving somewhere other than a city setting and I like XXX aspects to said vehicle. In America many kids are driving to school by 16 and have to use their car to get anywhere. Not saying this is a good thing in fact I think the opposite but I believe it add’s to the millennial know everything automobile attitude. I’d think in Croatia you aren’t going to be too packed but who knows do they even have paved roads outside of the cities? I’m ignorant to this not trying to talk trash. I myself love pretty much any brands from Corvettes to Hispano Suiza’s and try to focus more on performance and details than attitudes and stigma’s.

Sweet Trav > TheHondaBro
03/02/2016 at 18:50

Yes you can, the Corvette is faster.

Leon711 > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
03/02/2016 at 18:56

but will GM do it? they couldn’t figure out how to get Saab to survive in Europe there was only 1 or 2 meaningful new models from SAAB in their last decade over here. Opel doesn’t have an enormous market share on the mainland either, Vauxhall does in the UK though. Killing off Chevy in Europe is another sign of GM’s confusion as to how to handle Europe.

wiffleballtony > Leon711
03/02/2016 at 18:58

In regards to the Mustang, it lacks in body control and handling compared to the offerings currently available at 30,000 pound range? Or in comparison to cars much more expensive?

wiffleballtony > Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan'
03/02/2016 at 19:00

And they can enjoy their much slower cars.

BATC42 > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
03/02/2016 at 19:06

Doesn’t surprise me. It’s part of the image the Corvette has, as well as Chevrolet, and part because it’s not really a new car. And also it’s an American car.

AS some other said, the Corvette doesn’t really have a great image in Europe. It’s seen as a middle aged crisis car from a guy with little to no taste and whose hellbent on living his cliché American dream (not as worse as owning an American pickup truck though). Stereotypes can make life hard for an automaker. Like Cé Hé Sin said, it’s the same story for Cadillac, and Chrysler too. Also the European public is not really interested in Chevrolet, as they’ve given us only second-tier cars since they’ve been here and never advertised the “halo” ones. Unless you knew about it, the Camaro being on sale was a complete mystery. If Chevrolet had had a proper offer on the European market, that was able to compete on all criterias with what we already have available here, it probably would have been different. Their only competing point seemed to be price, and honestly almost everyone would buy a used Touran or C4 Picasso over a new Orlando.

This Corvette GS, despite having improvement over the Z06 isn’t really a new car, it’s still just an evolution. While on the rest of the showroom you have completely new cars that actually appeal to the European customer.

And it’s an American car. I know French brands have a bad rep in the US, but it’s the same thing in Europe toward American brands (except Ford, but that’s a different story). Chevrolet, Chrysler and Dodge, as well as Cadillac, are seen as subpad brands who don’t know how to make a proper interior and a nice finish and a car that can handle our roads, and that they can’t possibly be as good as what’s offered by other brands on the market. And it’s crazy. I LOVE the 300C (especially the Touring), and I would have loved to see more of them, especially since it came with a Mercedes Diesel under the hood, could have worked. But it’s a Chrysler.

Life is hard for US car makers in Europe, and it doesn’t seem it’s going to change anytime soon. Sure we lust after (some) US cars, because they represent for us everything that’s awesome about the US, but they never make it. Ford is the only one that makes the rounds (and Jeep to some extent, but different market), and I wouldn’t be surprised if they sell quite a lot of Mustangs over here. Bottom line, I’d love to see more American cars on our roads, but it’s going to be some really hard work to improve the image they have. Bringing proper cars over and not the shit show that Chevrolet has been doing would also go a long way.

Leon711 > wiffleballtony
03/02/2016 at 19:16

to the point where Top Gear mag said an Audi TT 2l was better than a GT.

http://www.topgear.com/car-news/usa/t…

Evo was more favourable but theirs wasn’t a twin test, I agree with them if you wanted a mustang before you’ll still want one, if you didn’t then probably not.

http://www.evo.co.uk/ford/mustang

Nauraushaun > For Sweden
03/02/2016 at 19:17

Is this like how a Camry wins NASCAR so obviously it’s a serious performance car as well?

For Sweden > Nauraushaun
03/02/2016 at 19:18

Sure, if you like comparing apples to oranges

camaroboy68ss > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
03/02/2016 at 19:36

The Corvette is Chevys halo car. Always has been and always will be. You have a better chance at mid rear engined Corvette than Corvette splitting into its own brand and the former is highly unlikely. Chevy is still the perfomance brand of GM, has been since the 80s when even Pontiac had to go to Chevy drivetrains. There is no reason to split the vette off when it still shares motors with the Camaro. With SRT and the Viper I could see because at that point only the Viper had the V10 and shared nothing with other mopar products. Your not going to pull Corvette from Chevy and expect it to become more brand recognized, it already has its fame or stigmatism depending on how you view the car. The 70s-90s did a number on the reputation of GM, Chevy, and the Corvette that I think you will never to be able to shake off. Chevy could pull out all the stops and build a Corvette that is worlds better than a Ferrari, faster than a Veyron, more plush than s Rolls, but it won’t matter. People will still complain and think the Ferrari or some other super car is better.

Nauraushaun > For Sweden
03/02/2016 at 20:07

The point I’d like to make is that the race car is not the same as the road car. I’m not sure just how similar the Le Mans car is, but I’m sure it’s a full on race car. The way it was prepared as a race car may say more about the victory than the car it was based on.

Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan' > JDIGGS
03/02/2016 at 20:07

I’m not presenting my opinion, I’m just saying that what I believe most Europeans think . I’m on Oppositelock, of course I like all cars, and I happen to love the new Corvette!

My argument is that it’s just not a car for this market. That argument is not based on facts and figures, not based on how it performs, how it feels to drive or whether it’s succesful in racing. The Corvette, like the Mustang, and like the Camaro have a very strong and very American character about them. And I’m sorry to say that this is unfortunately seen as a negative trait in Europe. It’s a tough sell.

You don’t buy a car based on how it performs, that’s total bullshit. Or what tech it has. Or even how much it costs. Cost is the first rational element to buying a car.

You ( you being a random person on the street who knows next to nothing about cars) buy a car exactly because it has a stigma, because it has a place in the eye of the public. You buy it because it has a character which you wish could be your own and which represents you in your nearest sorrounding. And in Europe, that sorrounding condemns looks down on anything American. While at the same time consuming almost exclusively American culture. Globalization kinda sucks. People are garbage.

And I can’t stress enough that these arguments or opinions are not my own, which you may have concluded from my original comment. I believe that these opinions are from the general public.

Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan' > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
03/02/2016 at 20:15

You may have a point there on exclusivity. That shit sells. You build only 5 units of anything and someone will buy it. But, I think that if you take into account my original comment, it would have to be pretty damn exclusive. In the hundreds, dare I say dosens. Maybe make a Corvette Stingray Spa Francorchamps edition and sell it only in Europe. Could work, I dunno.

Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan' > For Sweden
03/02/2016 at 20:18

I agree. People are idiots.

But at the end of the day, even a Corvette is too expensive to be rationally justified. A used Miata is the answer!

Or, pardon my French, the MX-5.

duurtlang > JDIGGS
03/02/2016 at 20:55

I think Otto’s attitude is that of someone who maybe is never going to have anything more than a used hatchback anyways and as a result his opinion is worthless.

That’s just BS. And disrespectful. And utterly ignorant (lack of paved roads? Are you joking? Do you realize the quality of US infrastructure is the laughing stock of the first world? Where do you think the European fuel tax money is going?) Do you realize how many 911s you can spot in western Europe?

The lack of sales of Corvettes in Europe isn’t because people don’t have the money. It also not because there’s a lack of space. It’s because, generally speaking, people here don’t think Corvettes are worth what they’re offered for. That’s it. Perceived as relatively overpriced or relatively unattractive, or both. Whether they’re right or wrong is a moot point.

Do note that while taking depreciation into consideration a Corvette won’t be significantly cheaper to own than a roughly similar Porsche here. Especially in countries where cars are heavily taxed on emissions, where I live a 911 is cheaper new than a base Corvette because of it. Anyway, considering its inability to serve as a representable company car (hello 911), its styling, its image, steep depreciation, negative brand image, poor historic image and lack of dealers/mechanics you’d have to be a huge Corvette buff to buy a Corvette in Europe.

wiffleballtony > Leon711
03/02/2016 at 21:24

I read that Audi Mustang article and he never actually said which was better particularly because they’re so different. He said he prefers the Audi but sees plenty of fun in the Mustang.

Honestly though reading the article was pretty laughable. Key points where the Mustang lost points was poor quality of the trunk and over servoed brakes. Apart from the overall Mustang-Ness. The Audi key victories were that it was competitive at 30 mph and the interior was nicer and a bit more precise on twisties. Glossing over it getting annihilated off the line and at higher revs and that the Mustang handles like you’d expect any front engine RWD car to.

Klaus Schmoll > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
03/03/2016 at 07:55

Since Chevrolet packed it in in Europe the Corvette is marketed as a standalone brand at select Opel dealers. It is sold as the Corvette, not the Chevy Corvette.